Actual Plans?

[ohiomomma]

Are there actual plans for container houses? Available to purchase and see that a family could build and live in? I see alot of chat of how it could be done but I'd like to see HOW it's done. how many containers arranged in which way with openinds and windows where will make a comfortable eco friendly home for my family of five? I keep seeing references to links and the bottom of containerbay but I'm missing them, or blind!

Anyone know of good websites that actually outline how a container home was/is built and actual costs?

[dpixel8]

I also would be very interested in plans. I have been looking for a while now and am finally going to be attempting to purchase some remote land to build a house for my S.O. and myself. HOPEFULLY out of shipping containers. The idea of being able to recycle these, as well as do the majority of the labor myself, is a big turn-on.

So I will be spending a lot of time at these forums reading and reading...and more reading. Hope to chat with you all.

[eamesdaedelus]

Yes, there are folks who have spent a considerable amount of time and effort figuring out how to take a ubiquitous thing and mold it into a pleasing space for folks to inhabit. There are plans to be had. There are connections to true logistical expertise. There are connections to manufacturers. But what there are still very few of, are built examples.

This is through no fault of those working tirelessly on this issue.

I for one have stacks of plans and designs to suite quite a few different situations and programmatic requirements. Greg LaVerdera is another lantern bearer. There is a publicized project going up in Redondo Beach utilizing containers built by our resident expert, David Cross. All of the pieces are in place.

What I am frankly seeing little of are early adopters. I field inqiries from people every week (literally E V E R Y week) about the feasibility to do a container project. But very few folks are commited to plunking down the chunk of change to get it done.

If I could I would, believe me, but sadly I'm just a single residential designer, with more debt than money, and so I can't be out there building my container project and figuring out all of the details at full scale and with the actual materials. There are no easy answers to be had. It will take work. Work that many of us are trained to do.

The network of professionals is in place to make these things a reality. It isn't any differnt than building a custom house. There are hoops to jump through at the city code level, yes. There are engineering issues to consider, yes. There will be surprises, yes. It will cost more money than what it is supposed to, yes. BUT, so does building ANY custom home. It is the nature of the beast.

All that a person needs in order to start designing and building their container dream-home is $$$ (and you don't need a ton of it), and this very website. I think homes can be built quite affordably using ISBU's (modified containers in the biz), but don't expect to get it done for significanty less than a custom home of similar size. If you approach the design and construction of a container house as if you were working on a standard custom house, then I think you are all set. All the pieces are there. All of the players are assembled. We are quite literally at your service.

If you are looking for readily available quick and cheap answers, then DIY is probably your only route, unless you can hold out to learn from the early adopters that WILL come calling eventually.

If you are really serious, have done your homework, have a realistic expectation of budget, have the property in hand, and have your finances in order, then you are ready to jump into this feet-first. The designs, designers and engineers, are here waiting to help you. All you got to do is ask.
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designSTUDIO
box 684742
Austin, Tx 78768

512.619.6962

[lavardera]

Thats just about as good a summary as I've ever seen Mark.
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Gregory La Vardera
architect www.lamidesign.com
modern stock plans www.lamidesign.com/plans
modern workplace www.workalicious.org

[toraoli]

And there my friend, is the difficulty... I have the land...and, I have the $$$...within reason.

Just 1 1/2 years ago...I could get a Dwell house for 125. Ft... But, NO! (Me...being wise, waited). Silly me. I waited...thinking...as, at the time...those in the know said..."prices will come down even more...once we have a few of these under our belts".

And...so the story goes. ...225ft, 250ft, 275ft..."how much for good design"? Those in the know now say.

What happened to cost? Affordability? Housing for the middle class?

Well...those of us, that...though we make 6 figures...still cannot afford a home in Boston, San Fran, DC, So. Ca, etc...ask? What happened to affordable housing?

I have the land, a very good income...but, I want something between a DIY and a custom home...is that too good to be true?

So, I'm turning to Container Homes...hoping, that those with the knowledge...won't make me pay 225ft...just to get it done. If that is the case...then, it simply is not with-in reach...for those of us, that truly would be grateful for the opportunity to own one. Leaving ownership...to the wealthy elite, that would love to have an "arty" show piece.

Somewhere...there has to be a meeting of minds, hearts, circumstance? If this movement is ever going to come to fruition...as a movement to help house the middle class. Or, did I miss something?

Thanks, my first post...and, I'm just sharing my 2 cents...please be gentle with your reply...


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[eamesdaedelus]

Sadly, it is not within the architect or designer's purview to determine what a building will cost. That figure is at the mercy of the everchanging market. Where I live $125/s.f. would be adequate for a nice custom home. It will not stay that way for long. Prices will rise. We are all at the mercy of the market. Until we can offshore all of our housing needs to some third-world country it is a reality we'll ALL have to live with. I for one have no desire to have my house built in China and shipped to me on a freighter filled with Nikes, and because of that I am at the mercy of the local labor and materials market, just like you. Do not scapegoat the designers. It is not within our control, no matter how much we wish it to be so.

Keep in mind that to build ANY house (stick, modular, or container) the amount of materials and labor involved is more or less the same per given size. There is NO magic bullet that will make a house of a given size cheaper than another house of the same size. These are the facts. Until consumers realize this we are at an impasse where only early adopters are going to make any headway. Existing projects have proven this time and time again. A container house isn't going to be the magic solution that is going to allow everyone to own their own home. There is no such solution, except maybe government subsidized housing, and by the looks of it, that isn't coming to a town near you any time soon.

And this is coming from someone who deeply wishes otherwise...
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designSTUDIO
box 684742
Austin, Tx 78768

512.619.6962

[dcross]

What is the location of your land, what is the square footage of your home desired under the roof, what is your expectations of exterior appearance, and what is your expectation of turnkey costs (was it $125?). Is this urban, suburban, or rural construction?
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David

[toraoli]

My lot is urban, aprox 1400 sq ft., So. Ca.

I started looking into prefabs...because, most of my friends that built "stick" homes, went so far over budget...that I became nervous about the process.

I can get a quote for 125/sf...but, it has been my experience (as a spectator), that it really is going to be about 25%-35% more than the quote given to build.

So, prefabs...seemed like a "safer" way to go. When the Glide house came out...GREAT!! An economical and beautiful home...finally something I could afford, and know that it is going to cost what I was quoted!! (At this point I had hired an architect, gone to the city...and so much more).

I had even gone to the Deck/Acorn House presentations...then, I believe it was 275/sf for a Deck House. Now, I don't see much difference between the new prefabs...and, what was going on when I first started to look into them...really beautifully designed homes, that are quality built...but, will cost as much, if not more than a custom home.

With all that being said...I did wait a year on the prefab...thinking that...not just the cost may go down, but that any kinks would be worked out. I still would prefer a modular/prefab/conainer house over a stick built...only now I'm back to 125/sf...and what does that really mean? I don't expect everything to be perfect, and the best...and, I'm willing to do some of the work myself..or, wait to have something completely finished. But, the prospect of a "stick built", and everything that I've seen my friends go through, is not appealing.

I also looked into prefabs from Canada...and, I think one of the posts here...said that is where the Breeze House is being produced? That makes sense, it is about 33% less expensive for the lumber, American dollar was stronger, labor would be less...but, now gas is high. But, why would prefabs built in Canada also double? That still is an option, a Canadian prefab, there are CO's that will build a custom modular, and as long as I keep it to the BC side...I still may be able to pull it off.

So, there you have it...I'm afraid of contractors!! I think you helped me have a break through!! Thanks David...fear of the unknown cost may be what motivates me?
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[lavardera]

Is that southern Canada, or southern California?
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Gregory La Vardera
architect www.lamidesign.com
modern stock plans www.lamidesign.com/plans
modern workplace www.workalicious.org

[toraoli]

Coastal Southern California
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[lavardera]

Well you are in a market where labor is very high, and as a result construction is very high. Contractor's insurance is another issue I've heard complaints about in your region.

The upshot of that is your are in a very good position to take advantage of the differential in labor costs by building remotely. You can speak to Peter DeMaria because he will have some direct experience about the cost of building with IBUs in your region. If you want to put sweat equity into that by completing the house yourself that is always an option even if you hire a pro like TAW to mod the containers.

Other options are modular - Iron Townhomes who built the Sages modules are within striking distance in Utah. The Sages pulled theirs in for about 100/sqft but they added a lot of effort to finish the house. But for another $25/ft I'm sure they could take you further down the road. You should read the Sage's blog, and email Sara and talk it through with her.

I'd like to pitch you ecosteel, but I don't think you can put together a whole house for 125 unless you build like 20 of them.
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Gregory La Vardera
architect www.lamidesign.com
modern stock plans www.lamidesign.com/plans
modern workplace www.workalicious.org

[toraoli]

Thanks!!

I am going to call Mr. Demaria...I did a drive past the Redondo house.

I'm not Familiar with Iron Townhomes who built the Sages modules...I'll Google them.

Thanks for your help...do you think that stick built homes always go over the quote given? Has that been what you and others have also experienced? I can get a quote for 125 s/f...but, will that actually happen?

THANKS!!
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[sailboatescape]

Some very good comments here. As a builder/designer currently in the planning stage, I'd like to add a bit more.

The container can offer some savings in the cost of the basic structure over what conventional construction cost would be for the same amount of square footage. Most of the finishing cost would be the same regardless of the structure, if it is the same type of finish. However, for nearly every builder out there, containers are a new frontier and dealing with something other than what you already know and are accustomed to working with takes a lot more time (learing curve) and they are going to charge more money accordingly. In that sense, containers are more "custom" than conventional custom building.

Since I am planning to build one for myself, my "learning curve" is on my ticket and I hope to be able to offer to build them at very competitive prices as I think there can be significant savings by taking advantage of the attributes of the container. However, I don't intend to travel afar to build but will continue to stay involved with this forum and share what I learn along the way.

PS--Have the land, currently working on waste water permitting and design/specification details. I don't expect this to get started until sometime next year due to other work committments ahead of it.

[JIM MILLER]

It's great that we have some professional designers, architects and builders on this list to give us advice on our dreams of building our homes for something less than custom-built, market-rate prices. What we should remember, however, is that the professonals may be looking to make a buck off of us as they offer their input. It may not be in their best interest to tell us that we can do a lot of this ourselves.

I noticed that one of you suggested that it makes some sense to have our containers modified by a professional located 3000 miles away because they are the experts at container modification. I have no doubt that the folks in Florida are real pros at the job, but the thought of shipping 8 or 9 containers from Florida to Southern Washington where I want to build seems a little like the old saying of "hauling coal to Newcastle." Both Seattle and Portland have thousands and thousands of clean, used containers just waiting to be converted...I'd be astounded if I couldn't find someone in the area who is capable of cutting a hole in sheet metal and welding in a simple frame and then painting the whole thing with a few coats of Supertherm. I've looked pretty closely at the containers that were modified for the Redondo House and I don't see anything that couldn't have been done in LA or Long Beach.

I have nothing against any of the professonals on this list, but suggesting that we should expect to pay the same price for a container home as we would for a custom-built is self-serving at best.

We certainly need professionals who are willing to offer their advice, but please folks, help us make this list work without turning it into a free medium to market your services.

Rather than more talk of issues like the local cost of labor, What we really need is for some enterprising entreprenuer to come up with a bunch of kit parts to make these things managable for an enterprising contractor or DIYer.

Make us a series of infill parts: an 8'x8' sliding glass door section that fits precisely into the end-opening of a container; a series of double-hung or casement windows that will fit into a weldable frame that is matched to the corrugations of the container wall; a window wall in a variety of widths; a selection of door inserts that come with their own metal frames; some sort of a joining material and gasket to fill the seams between containers; an adhesive that will work to hold wood to sheetmetal; a baseboard heating/electrical outlet that would fit a container; a mounting system for kitchen cabinets; a joining mechanism for attaching containers together and to a foundation; SIP roof and SIP infill pieces; skylights; an electrical wire harness; custom engineered posts and beams to reinforce our containers when we are cutting out walls; and most of all, a set of instructions on how to put it all together and meet the demands of the local inspections department. I could go on, but you get the point.

There are lots of different needs on this list. We have members who are building simple two-container homes, off the grid in the desert, and others who are planning 3000 sq. ft. beach homes. Each of us has our own needs that could be serviced by those who have special training and experience in the field. What we must remember, however, is that no one in this country really has much experience in container housing, and just because someone is an architect doesn't mean that they are expert in this endevor.
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Jim Miller
Thousand Oaks, CA

[toraoli]

WOW! Jim, thanks!!

So very well said!! That is exactly what would help to build a container home. If there were prefab parts, windows, doors etc!! You said so many things, that I absolutely agree with. I haven't looked into the labor in LA or Long Beach regarding welding, and, I'm going to have to look up Supertherm, but...you made several great points!

I like this site, and I've written to a few of the production CO's in Europe for info. (haven't heard back yet).

http://firmitas.org/

http://www.tempohousing.com/press/thb-web_eng.pdf

Thanks, I very much appreciate your input.
Toraoli
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