The New Guy with a Project

[alaskasail]

This is my first posting on *any* forum so I hope this is in line with what’s going on here. Please be patient.

I’m thinking of using containers on a 60-acre project I have in the mountains of Arizona and on another project in Juneau, Alaska.

In Arizona I’m hoping to build some little “casitas” for lack of a better word. These will serve as short-term dwellings for folks that visit to see all of the wildlife. (We’re next to the Buenos Aires Wildlife Sanctuary). In Alaska, I’m looking at a SFD of some size.

I own these properties outright and have the money to build something modest. I’m just finishing a rammed earth house in Arizona and from the experience have gotten some little knowlege. Although I built several places, I am not an architect or contractor. It’s a survival thing; I can’t afford Alaska contractors or plumbers so I have to do it myself. I’ve employed architects and engineers for my projects and some of my best friends are architects ;~). I’m a sailor actually, living in small efficient spaces for a long time so, that makes me a Semi-pro “DIY”er I guess.

Anyway enough about me ;~) I’m interested in the comparison of building a 8’X8’X20’-40’ box that would do the same thing as a container, to the cost of a container. Delivered and spotted, a container can run to around $4,500 and probably more where I am; maybe not much advantage after you bring it up to code (Amazingly much cheaper in Alaska). So why not just use 88’s or 2X4s and OSB? Is there such a thing as a cost matrix for this?

What I’ve learned in Arizona is that weather extremes are the order of the day. The rammed earth place is great for all of this, but with 2’ walls in place at about $150/yd, it’s expensive. To start with a container made out of steel, considerable insulation is going to be required to meet these WX extremes ($$$). I’m thinking that just burying a properly coated container is the way to go. Nail down the four corners and maybe put in some retaining walls around the front and top then backfill. A big window/sliding door and a kicked out bedroom would be required as well as something to beautify the inside. There are some interesting code issues here, but in Arizona, you can do about anything with a “mobile home”.

Thanks for your time.
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- Andy

If you loose a son, you can have another, but there's only one Maltize Falcon. SG

[modernlover]

Why not just give Rick Joy a call? Or maybe pay a visit to his studio in Tucson? www.rickjoy.com

Love the quote at the end of your post! That fits me to a T.

Good luck.
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Justin

[alaskasail]

I bought his book and like his work, but then there's Antoine Predock and...

I'm looking at spliting up some of this into 5-acre parcels and developing them along those lines; *very* different than the Green Valley mentalitiy, but because it's isolated here there will not be a conflict with the trailer parks.
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- Andy

If you loose a son, you can have another, but there's only one Maltize Falcon. SG

[eamesdaedelus]

Andy,

I have some property out in the Big bend area of Texas, and am thinking of doing a similar thing. Since my property is 60 miles from the nearest place that has any amenities, the first thing I need out there is a securable space that can provide storage, shade, water and a toilet. For this reason alone I'm going to start off with my s-CON0.5 design. There are plenty of talented welders out in that neck of the woods (oilfield workers) so I intend to do most of the mods in town (Alpine, Tx) and trick out the interior as well, then deliver the box and start on the rest of the project, which will include significant landscaping to create passively cooled and warmed spaces. The biggest thing that will need to happen is a roof structure that shades the container box itself. Initially this will just be a horizontal plane of ocotillo, that will cast dappled shade over the box and the adjacent exterior spaces. Also important will be water features, which will cool the breezes that blow across them and into the container space.

I will be using the ceramic insulative paint on the interior of the box, and insulating and furring out the north facing wall (where all of the plumbing and a fold-down day-bed will be located). The exterior I will have sandblasted and expose the corTen steel and just let it take on its natural rust patina, as that is the same colour as the surroundng volcanic tuff of my piece of property (10 acres).

In the future (after that is done) I intend to add more boxes as seperate rooms scattered about and defining various exterior courtyard spaces. Thinks Rick Joy's Casa Jax project, but with containers instead of wood framed and steel skinned boxes.

Regards,
Mark Meyer
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designSTUDIO
box 684742
Austin, Tx 78768

512.619.6962

[sailboatescape]

Mark,

I did a steel roof on a new house last year and it looks great. The supplier said the trick was to "help" it get a fairly even coat the first year. They told me to pressure wash with a little grease cutting soap (which you will not need if you sand blast) and then mix some vinegar and a little salt with water and spray it on with a pump up bug sprayer--worked like a charm.

[alaskasail]

I didn't realize these are made with corTen steel. It that true of all of them? If so, that's a great idea.

For shade, I expect to put up a hinged steel plate that will swing down to protect the sliding glass door when I'm gone. I'll probalby put sliding steel shutters for the other windows as well. (I've got a huge steel hopper to cut up and I want to use the steel) I live 16 miles from the Mexican border right on a wash with tall trees; a major avenue for travelers going north. I don't want any settlers.

I was also thinking of a plumbing wall, but I expect to kick out the bedroom area for a little more room.
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- Andy

If you loose a son, you can have another, but there's only one Maltize Falcon. SG

[eamesdaedelus]

Andy,

It sounds like you have a very similar idea to my s-CON.05


_________________
designSTUDIO
box 684742
Austin, Tx 78768

512.619.6962

[Michael]

Hi Andy:
For the area you are in I think there is no better way to go than the containers for security. Be sure you put a lock box were you can't get bolt cutters on the pad locks.

In your area I would look at straw bales (much less work that earth) or polyurethane to insulate instead of going underground. If you made these a big ice chest, it is easy to heat or cool.

I just see to many problems with the wood floors and poorly coated steel on the bottoms underground. Also container roof and walls are not designed for a wet earth load. You might go half buried or bermed with good drainage but keep air moving under the container floor.

When you say live on wash do you mean dry river bed? The rule is, if water ran there before, it will run there again;-)

Before doing the kick out room look at a second container side by side. Buy the time you pencil it out you will often be money ahead with a lot more living space. Also look at high cubes (9 1/2' high).I think they are better for wall cut outs because you can leave a lot of wall at the roof line to keep the roof stronger. I don't know if you are close to any major towns to ship cargo to defer delivery costs?

[dirtykj]

[eamesdaedelus]

Oh I have plenty of time devoted to it. What I don't have is plenty of money to make it a reality....
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designSTUDIO
box 684742
Austin, Tx 78768

512.619.6962

[alaskasail]

One of the reasons I'm considering an ISO for here is that it's usually so dry that I'd have to worry about loosing moisture from the steel!

The wash is below me so it's not a problem. We do have monsoons in the summer and all of the water comes at once as does the wind. When I got here, I wondered why people built places in the hollows rather than right on top with the view. Now I know.

I have a container in S.E. Alaska where it rains ALL the time these days thanks to those gals and their hair-spray. It's been holding up wonderfully (10years). I also built a two container equipment shed with simple trusess over them with a bay in the middle. I don't *live* in either, but I'm thinking about a container sytem for Alaska as well, where the moisture problems and condensation are substantial. I like the Diamond foundaton system to get them off the ground.

If I were to keep some air moving under a buried ISO, how would I do it? Ducting?

[Michael]

Glad to hear you are up dry. I just had a 35' wave wash down the little stream (dam break) at the back of my property and kill 7 people camping in the "dry" bed below. I look closer at water courses now.

I think building underground has a lot going for it, I just don't think the steel boxes are the best way to do it. However if there is any place you can pull it of it will be in a very dry desert.

I'm not familar with the Diamond foundation system, any links?

[Michael]

Sorry, I missed this: "If I were to keep some air moving under a buried ISO, how would I do it? Ducting?"

If you place the box fully on the ground the steel perimeter will stop airflow and the wooden floor will be the high spot mosture/condensation will go towards. In the desert you might get by with one set of foundation blocks, I think about 7 to 8 inch thick. Or at least leave one side open, don't seal it on all four side. In Alaska I would foam the floor and add a bottom panel to keep moisture out of the floor beams. In Hawaii with all the rot, I would consider epoxying the wood, a major project:-(

[modernlover]

www.undergroundcontainer.com The original 'underground container' guy has taken down his site and the page now has *his* explanation why containers are not suitable for burying.
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Justin

[alaskasail]

I'm still looking at this, but I don't have the idea of actually burying it as much as back filling with rock that's been removed for the septic and site prep. It is very dry here so I don't worry about flooding except during the monsoons when we get it all at once. By sloping the fill away from the container and perhaps planting it. I think I can keep dry. I was however, planning on putting some soil on top and planting that too. I think welding in some reenforcement would do the trick. Those containers can take huge loads at the four corners, but it's basically sheet metal on top. I haven't had any problem with considerable snow loads though. I'm beginning to think that cinder blocks, steel studs and OSB are comprable.

hmmmm